1.7: Shifting to Trust with Supriya Narang

But then I realized that this is the work. While playing, you connect with the child, and the child feels safe and supported in that moment. They do not come and start heavy conversations with you if you're not connected with them.

Right.

When you're playing with them, when you are connected with them, when you are at their level, when they feel seen and heard by you, that's when they feel connected to you, and that's when they actually come and talk to you.

Hi, I'm Kaitlin, and welcome back to Untangling Ourselves Today. I'm here with Supriya. Supriya Narang. Am I saying that right? Right?

Supriya. Supriya Narang.

Supriya Narang. She is a homeschool mom, a play therapist, neurodivergent community builder, web designer, and witch. I think those are some of your titles. Do you have anything you'd add to that?

Not at the moment.

Okay, so I work with Supriya on the Unschooling Every Family group, and she's always a voice for neurodivergent advocacy and a voice of reason when we're trying to figure out conflict. I know she's done a lot of work with community building, and you're speaking to me. I actually don't remember where you are exactly, but I know you're in India. Where are you exactly?

I'm in Bangalore. Bangalore, Karnataka, India.

Okay, great. So welcome. I'm glad to have you here. Do you want to talk a little bit about what it's like to be a homeschool family in India? Like, do you feel supported? Does it feel unusual? Is there a community that is organized, or are you kind of doing that all on your own?

Hi. Thank you so much for having me. About homeschooling in India. See, there aren't many of us. It's quite a niche field still. So we are like, maybe if someone were to calculate, we were 0.001 percentage of all the people. It's super rare to find homeschoolers out there in the wild, but, yeah, we're there, and we are building it slowly, step by step. We have a community in Bangalore, and where I am, we have a nationwide community as well. So no matter what the issue you're facing, there will be somebody or the other who has diy'd it or who knows about it. So it's not that lonely. But, yes, it is. It's still a very, very niche thing.

Yeah.

However, each family, each generation of family has its own set of challenges. Right. Living in a City by ourselves at this time as a nuclear family. That itself has so many challenges. So there are always new challenges coming up, but we deal with it.

Yeah.

Are you talking about not having the family support living in the city just.

Yeah. Just by being by yourselves? Yes, it is, it is a bit tricky. And also when you move to a new place. Right. So we started afresh in each place that we lived. So when we were in California, we started afresh and when we were in Dubai, we started afresh. I barely knew any, even one person before moving there, so it was always building from scratch. So when I left each city, I had friends, but when I moved there I didn't know anybody. So it is really hard to parent in that scenario. Right. Parenting in sort of isolation, parenting while building community and parenting and finding friends for your child in each place. So that's a little bit tricky, but then it takes time to navigate through it. And I did have to put a lot of extra effort, you know, showing up to things which are being hosted by other people, like library story times and all of that. And when things didn't work out for us due to any reasons, then I had to build the things that we needed. So in that way, it has been a journey of building, rebuilding from scratch.

Yeah. So what did you learn in that process? Because I know I haven't had that exactly that, but I, I'm familiar with some of that and, and how challenging it is to jump into a new place and find your community. Is there anything you learned that you could share with other people about how to do that, like what to look for or how to put yourself out there or any tips that you have about that process of moving to a brand new place and trying to find people for your family.

You just have to get out of your comfort zone and show up, basically. That's what I did. Yeah. Because you are not going to find people if you just stay at home and be comfortable and like, no, I will not go to this or I will not do this. That's. It doesn't work for me. If I don't go out there and I don't show up, my child will not have friends in the homeschooling community or in a new place. Right. So I do have to put myself out there and I did have to, you know, host a lot of things actually in every place. I did have to host a lot of things so that I could be kind of involved and I could be out there, basically. And that involved sort of a little bit of hard work.

Actually, yes, hosting is not easy.

It's not easy. Yeah. And you don't know how many people are going to show up. It could be a super flop show also. There could be one person showing up. But then luckily when I moved here to India, there were a few people who showed up and they have been quite consistent in my life. Like people who showed up even to the first meeting that I hosted. I'm still friends with them and their children are still friends with my children. So it worked out for us.

Yeah, that's wonderful. That's really good. I, I also find that to be a little bit of the magic of being in the homeschool community that it's already narrowed down a bit. So you do kind of find your people, you know, pretty quickly usually, hopefully depending where you are. So I'm curious because I know. So you identify as neurodivergent. Do you want to share more about that? Like what specifically or.

Yeah, sure. So I wasn't really coping well with certain things, like all of these changes in my life. I wasn't a stay at home person before, before becoming a parent. Also. I, I was actually working till the very last day before I became a mom, like working outside the home. We are still working but I was getting paid for that at that time. Yeah, I was actually just one day before I had my baby. I was still doing stuff on my computer and sending mails and all that and then I signed off at 8 o' clock and then I checked into the hospital at 4 o' clock in the morning. So the change to from corporate person to a stay at home parent was kind of very tricky for me. But some things came naturally, but some things were really hard. Even if it took like three years. I wasn't really coping with certain parts of this change and I was having frequent panic attacks and I was always comparing myself to other people and how come they have their life so sorted and how able to finish their house chores at a certain point in time. Struggling to reach the story time at 11 o'. Clock. I'm not able to do that. I was always comparing and wondering what is wrong here? What am I not doing correctly? So I had a lot of, you know, these thoughts in my mind and then of course because of all the comparison, I was having frequent panic attacks and there was lots of stuff going on. Like I was practically failing at motherhood, if you can say that, because there was this, there was this story of motherhood out there which was all sorted and all running smoothly and I was not running Smoothly. My household was in shambles. I was not able to do the basics even and I was, I wasn't really coping with it. So I started therapy and during therapy it was suggested that, you know, I look into that. So luckily I found a person at that point in time in life and I got the diagnosis quite easily. It wasn't, it isn't that easy for many of us late diagnosed women. So yeah, that's what for me that I found somebody who actually believed in it and who actually looked into the symptoms of ADHD and anxiety. So I got a several, you know, couple of labels at that time and yeah, now I do wonder that was it just ADHD or was it odhd, autistic and adhd? But then where I am currently in my stage, I'm content with where I am. So I'm not pursuing any further formal diagnosis. I am okay with, you know, being self diagnosed at this point about that.

So, and so what difference did it make to get that when you had that, the labels and the self diagnosis, what has that done for you in terms of your approach to motherhood and all of that?

It changed my lens, it changed my belief that there is something wrong with me, that I'm struggling because if there's something wrong with me, I, I, when I learned about ADHD and when I learned about my own brain, it told me that I function differently. And I already had my certain hacks to live life right. I already had certain things that I was doing in order to not struggle so much. But then I had a name for it now and I realized that doing some things differently doesn't mean that you're doing it wrong or doesn't mean that you're less than anybody. It just means that probably you need to find other people who affirm that because the people who you're with who are doing things in a certain way and when you're the only one who's not doing them in that particular way, then you stand out. But then when you find those other people who are also okay to do and look at things in a different way, that is when you feel like, okay, this is, this is where I fit in and that's not my tribe. So this is where I found my tribe actually. When I found the vocabulary, when I found the words. I found other neurodivergent people online. Yeah, at that time it was online. I did not find many people in my real life. So. But slowly, slowly I think when my child was five and when it was sort of around two months Post two years, post this diagnosis and everything. Then I started, you know, clicking, okay, this person also seems to be matching my wavelength. So maybe they don't have the diagnosis or maybe they don't have the vocabulary yet, but they are not judging me, and that's who I want to vibe with. So today, I think most of my friends may be identifying who I gel with, are identifying as neurodivergent, or at least they're not judging me. So I think I found my people away from the set of people who were sort of super judgy about how we do things.

Yeah. And do you feel like having the labels made you mask less or be more confident and then you. It was easier to find people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you're authentically yourself, you know who's coming your way, and you're also able to tell that, you know, this is not the place where I fit in. So you decide where to mask, where to not mask, basically.

Yeah. So instead of just comparing yourself, you decide, oh, this isn't right for me. I'm going to move on. And so then my other question is, you were talking about hosting and finding people, and I know for a lot of neurodivergent people, hosting is really hard. Like hosting an event, showing up, meeting new people, keeping the kids in one space, and making sure you show up at a certain time. It's all really challenging. So do you have any insight about how you managed to do these activities and organize these community events even?

Was not that hard for me.

Yeah.

Showing up on time, also not hard for me. However, it always has a social cost. Right. So there would be people who would be. Not everybody would be super affirming to our lifestyle when we meet them first time. Right. So.

Right.

There are always judgments, and there are always people who do things differently, and you do the things differently. That sometimes doesn't vibe. And sometimes there's a social cost. Like maybe you're expecting like five people, but then 50 turn up and then you're exhausted. Like, your social batteries has ran out and everybody wants to talk to the person who has invited them and.

Right.

Sometimes people have questions. Sometimes people are at different places in their journey, so they want to talk. And then you have a child who also needs you, and the child is young. You're hosting it so that your child gets friends. Not so. Not so that, you know, you can speak to a lot of people for, like, hours. But then I found a system to navigate it. I talk to people on the phone and online, and when we host the event. It's more child centric to do with, you know, the children's needs. So that's how I have been able to navigate this sort of thing as of now. And also earlier I wasn't limiting the things that I was doing. Like I was doing everything that I could think of. But now I am a little bit more mindful. And it has also been like eight, nine years of doing it and building and all of that. So I've also grown as a person and also like what I mean and what my child needs. So my child is, he does not require 20 friends at one time. He requires like maybe two or three. So we may host things which have a cap of 10 or 20 things so that there is more focused attention on each child rather than it being a huge thing where nobody knows what is happening. And then there are 50 children in one cluster. Like a place where, you know, there is eco sound and nobody knows what is happening, basically. So not a lot of chaos. Maybe 10 children, 15 children at one time, whatever, like socially I can deal with without getting into burnout the next day and whatever like the children also can cope with.

Right. I mean, what I'm hearing is that in a way you've learned to set boundaries around how you do this, to recognize your own needs, recognize your child's needs and set a cap on the number of people or set certain conversations into the online space instead of the in person space and just create kind of the container for making it a sustainable thing to do, the hosting and the organizing. So you were talking about making the spaces child centric. And that kind of brings up your work as a play therapist. And I'm really curious about that because I love, I've just learned so much from play therapy. It's really, it challenges me because I'm all about the words, I'm all about the talking, I'm all about asking questions. So do you want to talk about what play therapy is? And I'd love to learn more about it from you.

Okay, sure. So actually my questioning about play therapy and my research into it started during the pandemic when I saw my son. We were inside the house suddenly. And our house is like a two bedroom. And then my spouse was working at that point of time in balcony, like in the small area outside our house. And he had to work. And my child, obviously he was like 7 years old. He had nobody else to talk to. He was inside the house. So he wanted to talk to my spouse. And then they were having frequent, you know, conversations about, I Want to work and I want to play and all of those things,

as a lot of people did during the pandemic. Right.

And I had to wash the. Picking vegetables and all of that and bring them. Bring the grocery in, do all of that work regarding the household management, because there was suddenly now new guidelines about how you're supposed to wash vegetables and how you're supposed to do this and that. So I was navigating all of that, and there was hardly any time I was able to give meaningfully to my child. And I saw that struggle that he was also going through, and I was struggling because I am also a social person, and I was suddenly inside the. While we did stuff for mothers on Zoom and all of that, and, you know, we did listening circles and. And it was a challenging time, and we were forced to. Suddenly forced to this new, like, you know, fit in this new reality. Yeah. And I saw my child struggle. I saw myself struggle, and I tried to find a play therapist for him. However, the people that I found at that point in time, it was a lot of difference between where my child was and where they expected a child to be and how they were able to connect with the child. So I found, like, maybe one person who was able to connect to him at some level, but I didn't find a lot. It was after a lot of filtering out. Right. So I had to go through many people to find that one person who would fit in, which is.

Can be really hard to go through people hard.

And if a person doesn't know about their child much, they can just go with the first person and assume that this is the right therapy for them or this is the right person for them. But that didn't really click because they were expecting something else. They were expecting something else, and they were expecting a child to engage in a different way.

Yeah.

The kind of stuff that was happening in that therapy, it didn't really align with me. Somewhere I didn't have the vocabulary why it didn't align at that time, but somewhere it didn't align with me, and my child was disinterested. But when I found this approach to play therapy, which centers the child and where they are, and I had to sort of hand hold the person who was actually doing it, that this is what my child likes. So can you build conversations around this thing? And, you know, after each, I would have a conversation with them that, okay, what happened? And all of that. So while I could not do the therapy with my child, I still need another person to do it. I was seeing that there is a lot of need for this kind of thing where the parent doesn't have to handhold the therapist and you know, parent shouldn't have to tell them that this is what my child likes. They should be able to figure out a little bit. So I saw that and I was feeling like this is something that I have to learn. I didn't know why, but I had to learn more about it basically for helping my son. And that's how it started. That's how I started. And I naturally was playing with my child, but I did not have the vocabulary or I did not have the way to define that this is what it is, this is what I'm doing. I was naturally just playing with my child. But then I realized that this is the work. While playing, you connect with the child and the child feels safe and supported in that moment. They do not come and start heavy conversations with you if you're not connected with them right when you're playing with them, when you are connected with them, when you are at their level, when they feel seen and heard by you, that's when they feel connected to you and that's when they actually come and talk to you. So while unschooling I was actually doing this, but then I realized that this is something that my child needs more of. So I went and like did formal education in that, that field. The title actually is not play therapist here. The title is play practitioner. Therapeutic Play practitioner. But the work is still the same. So.

Yeah. So what does it look like? What does a play practitioner session look like when you're working with a child? How is the approach different than what you were seeing from the other ones?

So my presence, I feel, is to see the child who they are. And I, I think a lot of traditional therapy has a model of where the child should be at a certain age. And they're comparing that to the child and you know, bringing in models and bringing in support and conversations. I'm not saying that's wrong, that's just not how I operate. I operate from a neurodiversity affirming lens and a strength based perspective. And that's what my lived experience brings in as well. Seeing the child where they are truly and supporting the child where they are like for seeing the strengths of the child rather than comparing themselves to a checklist or something. Seeing the strengths of the child, seeing the child as a whole human being that they know what they're doing and they have the wisdom, they are doing it mindfully. They're, they're conscious about things. So respecting that child, seeing them as a human being, these are basics. I feel that they should be happening. But that's what I actually want to achieve that I want to see the child as a human being. I want to see their strengths and, yeah, work on their, you know, the areas that they need support in. Of course. But I first of all, first and foremost want to get that child seen and heard that this is a person. I will not, they will not judge me. When they come into my house and then they come into my room or I go visit them. I want them to feel that this person is not going to judge me, which I was anyway, not feeling, doing. But then, you know, I want them feel that this person is safe. I am safe with them. They are not going to judge me. My strengths are going to be seen here because in my experience as a neurodivergent person, the journey of just one person seeing you, I feel it makes a lot of difference. Like in every phase of my life, even if there was one person seeing me for who I am and seeing me as a person looking at my strengths, not just my weaknesses, that has really supported me. So I want to be that one person for the child and support their family in becoming new, more neurofirming. Support their family in understanding how this child's brain works so that they can work with the brain, not against it.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm really curious about that, what you just said about trusting that the child knows what they're doing. Because I think a lot of families might come to therapy because their child is breaking things or because their child is depressed. So can you think of any examples of how you approach that as a child knowing what they're doing? How do you work with that, with this assumption that you can trust the kid, that this is something they need right now?

When a child is breaking things or throwing things around, that is information for us. Information for us that the child is somewhere dysregulated or something is not going right for them. Right. So they are not doing it randomly. They're not just picking up things and breaking for the sake of it. Yeah, maybe in a different phase, you know, when they're learning about how this thing works. Maybe. Yeah. But when they are doing it consciously, when they're doing it just to get that feeling of why is nobody hearing me out? I'm trying to communicate something. So I really feel that beneath the behavior there is a reason. And we need to look beyond that tip of that iceberg of what the Top of that iceberg is telling us that the child is breaking things. Yes, we know he's breaking, he or she or they are breaking things, but what is the reason behind that? Why are they getting to a stage where they have to break things in order to be heard? Why can't we hear them at the beginning of their crisis or meltdown or whatever they're in? So my goal is to reach that place where the child is able to communicate with their caregiver or their provider, like with their parent, that what is going on or the parent is able to understand what is going on with the child so that they're not reaching that melting point mostly every single day, at least if we can reduce some of those meltdowns.

So I'm really curious. You've gotten to this point where you have this understanding of yourself and your own neurodivergence and how to trust and affirm kids. And you also sound very grounded in terms of like how you approach community and set your own boundaries and just kind of meet people where they are while also taking care of yourself. So I'm curious how you got to all this. Like, were you always someone who approached people in this kind of non coercive collaborative way? What made you realize that you needed these kinds of tools in your life to accept people and to work in this way?

I was not at all of course when I was working in corporate and when I was so I have an MBA and I was working in a corporate job and of course jobs are how they are and right. I neither was I cooperative nor collaborative. If you talk to any of my ex colleague they'll be like case. And no, I was not, you know, this kind of person before. But life humbles you. And my own experiences as a mother who was diagnosed with postpartum depression earlier and then anxiety and then ADHD and then all of these and then cptsd. And so the way I saw life as this person who's now not having any tags, they're just a mother. The way society treated me taught me how I should not treat others.

Okay, when you, when you became a mother?

Yeah, when I became a mother, when I did not have any of the fancy tags going along with me, when I did not introduce myself with my alma mater or my degrees, that's how I saw how people saw me. Just a person, a human. And when I saw that how people are seeing me, it sort of humbled me. And I realized now that how you should actually see people. So now you know, I was actually not Very good with even service people. Like, you know, I, I was an basically sorry for the things, but I was an. And I was not treating people right and I hope they forgive me. Being a mother changed me and being a mother with being a stay at home mother. People treat you like when you're nobody.

Yeah.

You're almost as close to nobody there. And people treat you like. And people treat you like you're the worst creature. And they don't give you, they don't even look at you. Like you. I have these instances where you walk into a showroom to buy a car and they don't even look at you. They're looking at your husband because he looks like he works and he has money and they don't. So, you know, all of these things humbled me. So I now know how to see women and I know how to see children and women because of my experiences of not being seen.

Yeah, that's beautiful. I also really relate to that because I, yes, I have a similar experience when I used to teach. I was so controlling and judgmental and ableist and I also hope people forgive me. But yeah, it's so fascinating because people do see like a stay at home mom as just nothing like you said. But at the same time, like what we're talking about here, you're doing some of the hardest work, not to idealize it, but to really learn how to build relationships with people. Like you said, we're not taught that how to regulate with children's emotions. It's such a journey to learn these things. And it's interesting how the people who are kind of thrown in the trenches to learn these things of new mothers are seen as not doing anything. It's like a complete disconnection culturally from that emotional life and that relational life and how important it is you identify as a witch. And I know you do work around like women's organizing. Do you want to talk more about your approach to motherhood and how you see organizing women and feminist advocacy?

Yes, I think this is. Everybody should be feminist because we just live in times where. Yeah, there was yesterday, it was Women's Day. However, coming back in the evening from the event that I was attending to mark something. You're not safe out there. It's. It's just not safe out there and you're still fighting for your basic rights. And this was in the evening when, you know, ideally when you're coming back after a certain time, you're supposed to share your ride with other people because it's just not safe. And then it's quite basic, right? And when you're negotiating with a vendor or somebody, you have to be a certain soft, polite tone, otherwise you have a risk of being assaulted or you have a risk of being not taken seriously. So all of those things, we are like literally asking for the basics here, the bare minimum. Treat us equal with another person, treat us as a human being, listen to us when we say things, when we walk into a place with a man, look at us. Also, I think it's the basics and I maybe not make, maybe not saying it correctly or something, but there's a lot I feel about how women are treated in the society today. And a lot of it has to do with internalized beliefs about how women should be like. People believe that a woman should be like this. We should be feminine and we should be doing all the work and her house should be all sorted and clean and nice and organized. We should be sorted, organized, looking a certain way, dressing up a certain way. And we should be all respectful to people. For what reason should we be respectful? Have you given us respect? Why are you demanding respect when you don't, when you haven't done anything to be like us, to be respectful about? I, I really don't these days, like, give her access to what a person's age is and, you know, what their authority is. But because are they treating another person. That is my bare minimum standard now, that. Are they treating a person with respect? Are they actually seeing a child? Are they mocking a child? Are they making fun of somebody like a person from a service industry or a child or somebody below their rank to get ahead in life? That's my bare minimum now that, and I, I really don't hang out with such people anymore who are doing these things. However, it does affect me when I see these people walking around and I'm not ashamed to call them out anymore. I was, at a certain point, I was people pleasing at one point in my life. I wanted those people to like me.

Right?

Not anymore. I, I really don't care. I have my, you know, I have my people sorted. I know who likes me, I know who doesn't like me. And I'm okay with maybe two people liking me. It's all right. But I do want to, you know, call these things out in aloud because there is a lot of hypocrisy going on. There's a lot of expectation from women. There's a lot of pressure on women, and women are struggling because of that pressure. It was all okay if, you know, you were Doing it to yourself. But then when you're putting those expectations on another person. So, you know, you may not have done parenting one day in your life, but when you come and see a mother's house in shambles, you can see, oh, why don't you teach your child how to clean up after themselves or certain things which, you know, you have no clue about how it is to be a mom. You have no clue about, you know, how to keep a house running. You have not done cooking one day in your life. But come and give, you know, opinions and mansplain and all of that to people, and then it's not that easy. Right. Because the person on the other hand, who's working overtime, they are stretching themselves. This is not. They were. This is not what they were taught. For me, I was not. I. I did not grow up cooking. My parents are both doctors, so both of them were working. Nobody is really actually in the kitchen actively cooking all of the time. They were doing their professions. I was doing my profession that at that time. Right. I was working towards building my, myself up. I was doing my own education and my own career. Nobody was actually focused on the life skills and the labor of cooking in the house. So I did not really grow up doing these things. But then as soon as I became a wife and a mother, I was suddenly expected to take care of the entire household and.

Right.

And also shame for doing it incorrectly. So there's a kind of training on the job and learning on the job that happens, but I was not given the chance to adjust to that. So. So I had a lot of feelings about those things.

Yeah.

And I think every new wife and a new mother goes through this transition where they are suddenly expected to become something else apart from what they were. And nobody actually hand holds them in doing that. Nobody actually hand holds them in this new identity now. And no matter what they do, they are failing. They are considered failing by some or the other person. And they are not ashamed to tell you that. They'll tell you in very different ways. And sometimes even your spouse comes and tells you. So I, I think it's not a super happy thing to be treated like this.

Yeah.

To be told that, you know you're doing things wrong even though you're trying your best. So I do want to affirm, you know, other women that you have tried, you are trying and you are trying, and whatever you're doing today is probably your best because, yeah, you have figured it out by yourself. Nobody handheld. You, you are doing it in the trenches. People hundreds of people will come and tell you how you're doing it wrong. Hundreds of people will come and tell you, you know, how your baby is using you as a pacifier. You baby, let your baby cry it out. But then you are the mother in the house who has to deal with the behavior issues that happen because of that parent. That kind of parenting, that kind of emotional neglect or whatever.

Yeah.

So you are the one who has to deal with those outcomes. So why not do it in a way that works for you?

Right. Right.

Yeah. So I want to tell mothers, no matter what they're doing, no matter what parenting choice they're making, that this is your choice. Don't let people shame you for your choices. Make your choice in an informed way. Sure. Everybody does their own research these days. We have Internet and we have groups, and this was not there when we were growing up. So our parents kind of did whatever, you know, they needed to to get by. But today we have some information. So today we have support networks, and everything is there out there. So find support. Find other people who affirm you. Don't put you down. And that's how growth happens. Growth doesn't happen by 10 people coming and shaming you and telling you how you're doing wrong.

Right.

It happens when somebody sees what you're doing, gently hand holds you to the next level of where you want to get.

Yeah, Yeah, I agree with that so much. And it's. You know what's interesting? When I'm listening to you talk about motherhood and these challenges and the shaming and comparing it to how you and I were just talking about our professional lives before being mothers. And it's like when you have a professional life. You know, when I was teaching, of course I had supervisors, I had training, but nobody came in my classroom and said, you're doing that wrong, and you're doing that wrong, and you're doing that. Nobody said, oh, you shouldn't be doing the questions this way, and you should be doing the test this way. And no one would ever dissect your professional life to that degree. But somehow people feel entitled to do that to mothers. Right. And, you know, we were also talking about. You were talking about play therapy and trusting kids that they know that they know what they're doing. And I think that applies here too. Right. People don't trust mothers that they know what they're doing. And when you're talking about. You're talking about offering that. That affirmation and that trust that they're doing their best and that they're figuring out what works. Yeah, yeah. It's just such a stark contrast, which it sounds like that stark contrast had a huge impact on you.

Yeah. I mean, like you said, nobody would come into your boardroom and tell you how you're doing things wrong. But because the mother is out in the public and sometimes the children are having feelings in public out there and children are not going to hide their feelings. Like the 3 year old is not going to stop crying because somebody is watching. So you are being judged. And you know, people feel very entitled to give opinions to mothers. They would not give it to a father, actually.

Yeah, yeah.

A father is always a good father. Even if they're just holding the child's hand and walking in the supermarket and the mother is a little bit far. They're the best parents. But mothers, they are maybe holding 20 things and parenting, working outside the home, cleaning, cooking, doing all the works, but their child is melting down and they're bad mothers. Or their child is not looking like some grocery that, you know, supermodel. They're wearing yesterday's clothes or their hair is out of place. They're not looking like a model. They're bad mothers. It's very easy to be a bad mother. You don't have to do anything at all to be a bad mother. You just get out there in the world and you're a bad mother. Anything can piss people off and you can be tagged as a bad mother.

Yes, that's so true.

You just have to open your mouth and speak something, you know, that is on your brain and you can be that bad mother. And your child is doing something out of the ordinary. The child, maybe the child is doing something absolutely normal for a kid. Right. But it's not the right place for that. It's not the right environment to do that. So you're a bad mother. You're not able to control your child. As if children are things to be controlled. Children are statues which are there to be just seen and they're not people. So that there is a lot of ableist thinking, ableist, childish, I mean, anti child thinking going on in the world. And especially, you know, people just before our generation, probably like, you know, elders currently are what they say, boomers, they have a lot of antiquated views about how children should be. And they expect the children to be a certain way. And when they are not the certain way, then they are not behaving in that particular way. Who will be blamed? The mothers. Because the mothers have spoiled them rotten or not controlled them enough. Now the children are.

Yeah, it's almost like in order to be a good mother, you'd have to be invisible. You'd have to just blend in, disappear, be this statue. Like you said, there's no way to do that. And also be in a connected relationship

with your child, which is to me

the essence of parenting.

Being a good parent, having that connected relationship.

Yeah, because we are done. I, I am done personally being a good daughter, being a good daughter in law, it doesn't matter to me. But what matters to me is being a good mother because this child is dependent on me, their child. This child's nervous. Nobody else is coming for them, Nobody else is going to support them in this world. I'm responsible for them because they didn't ask to be born, I brought them. So I'm responsible for them more than I'm responsible for any other grown adult. So my responsibility towards my child is higher. So I have to be more loyal to them. So when I have this choice of being a good XYZ role, I would rather be a good mother to them then fulfill these other roles or people please other adults.

Yes, yes, absolutely. I agree with that. And that's been such a journey because I feel like motherhood forces that conflict. It forces that decision. You have to decide, are you going to take care of the grownups who are full of judgment or are you going to take care of this child who might. You can't control and so you can't disappear, you can't, you can't. People, please. And also connect with your child. You know, it's, it really, it's definitely forced that conflict in my life and forced some big decisions and yeah, it's. Yeah, okay, I think. Oh, you know what else I was curious about? And this is again, sort of tying into this idea of the conflict of values. You do a lot of this hosting and you do a lot of community organizing and we talked about a little bit about boundaries. How do you handle conflict in community? Because I know in my experience of homeschool communities and this might be cultural or local, but people's own needs come up, people's own communication styles, people's expectations or miscommunications or mental health. And it's inevitable there's conflict. Have you experienced that? And do you have any approaches that you take when it comes to interpersonal conflict in the communities that you build right now?

I think conflict is a part of life. And you know, it's always that when we are trying to share our needs, somebody others, somebody else's needs may not align with that. It happens. I don't have any, you know, process or anything to deal with conflicts. And neither am I like a perfect person who knows how to deal with it. It's still a work in progress for me.

Yeah.

I try to see it from the other person's lens also. Like I. I may try to understand their perspective. I work with my intuition and I work with what feels right to me. And sometimes the energy or the vibe of certain person may not match yours. So it's okay. There are always other people. Right. So I haven't really faced that many challenges while building because other people also want to build. Other people also want to be in community with you. So it's mostly people have same goals but maybe different ways to seeing it. Maybe different ways to be in community. So. And not every time people are able to offer like, reciprocality, like they are not able to be reciprocal in community, and that's okay. So you may. You may not need 20 people to be reciprocal. You may need two. It's okay.

Yeah. Not everybody can host and trade off and do all that.

Yeah.

It used to hurt me initially that, you know, why am I the only one who's always taking effort? Why am I not being. Why is my effort not being reciprocated? And. But I thought that maybe that's my calling anyway.

Yeah.

Maybe that's what I'm good at and maybe that's what I can do so I'm able to do. Maybe somebody else is not feeling called to do that. And that's nothing personal. And maybe they're not able to hold capacity for something like this regularly. Maybe they can do it once or twice, but people are not able to do it regularly. Like, life takes over. And if I have the capacity, I do. If I. I also work with my own capacity and my own spoons. Something I really haven't talked about is seeing your own capacity. Like, you don't always have capacity for things. So apart from being neurodivergent, I also have some other health issues going on. I have. I have had, or I'm in remission in certain chronic illnesses. So you really have to work with your capacity. And if you're having enough, I feel I can share when I'm not having enough. Like when I don't have capacity, I ask. I ask for my, you know what I need. I ask for support. I need. I have had days in which people have come supported me. When I was shifting houses, actually, I was faced with a situation where I was by Myself. And I had to by myself, as in with my child, by myself. And suddenly we had to shift in one week and I was again having panic attacks because of that.

I'm sure. Yes, yeah, anyone.

And there was a whole household to be shifted and 100 things to be done. And I was really not able to. So I reached out to my community, I reached out to the friends and so many women showed up. It's always, you know, there was somebody or the other shows up. It even recently, very recently, when my child had a fracture or when my child had a head injury, it was always community who showed up for me. But then you have to ask for it also. Yeah, you have to ask for it. And sometimes people know how to support you. Sometimes people may not know how to support you. So we have to go with what people's capacities also are like. Somebody's intention may be very good, but they are not able to come in person, but their moral support is there. So I think we have to see each person as knowing themselves like they know what they are able to do and we have to not take it too personally. Okay. This person didn't really show up for me in the way that I needed at that time. Sure, maybe you needed something else, but they, maybe they're not able to give it at that particular time. So, you know, there is always a little bit of thing in community where people's needs are different, your needs are different. There is no perfect balance. It is messy. Somebody or the other is going to mess up, you're going to mess up, people are going to mess up. Because relational skills are not taught. Relation skills are learned on the job while making mistakes. So we are going to make mistakes while being in community.

Yeah, I mean, it comes back to this something that we've been talking about the whole time, which is trusting people are doing their best, trusting yourself and your own needs and recognizing your own needs as a way to just make that conflict less, take the teeth out of it, make it less about, oh, this person has failed me or this person isn't there for me to just take it as everyone doing their best and meeting the needs that they have to meet. Yeah, that makes sense. I think that kind of covers this question, but are there other ways that you make community spaces or event hosting neurodiversity and disability friendly?

So by default, some of the places that we choose or some of the events that we do may be neurodiversity affirming just because they're small groups and there is more attention on the need of the children. Right. So they may by default be. But for some people, it may still not be enough. So then we ask for it, like we ask for input that, you know, if it is not accessible, what would you like it to be? So there are instances where the event that I have hosted have not been accessible. But I try to ask the parents that if there is something you need, if there is some request, if there is a dietary preference, if there is a sensory preference that let us know in advance, we'll try our best to accommodate you. So I feel like we are not there fully to accommodate each and every kind of need, but then we are getting there with the resources we have in hand also. Right. So asking for input from people who are in need of that support, I think centering the voices of those people who need it, I think that will change things.

Yeah. And it sounds like it always is just changing and specific to the needs and the resources for each event, each moment.

Yeah. And there's not one answer. Right.

About making things accessible.

Yeah. Because every person needs different things and every need may also. Needs are also flexible. Right. The children also grow, and they may also have different capacity on each day. So you may have planned for certain things at certain day, but the need may change. The child may be coming with a different set of expectations that day. It is hard to navigate that. But we do try to, like, our heart is in the right place and intention is in the right place. So I'm sure the actions will also align as we grow.

Yeah. Yeah.

And that fluctuating capacity is so important too. I mean, even for you, as you've been talking about, in terms of what you can do on certain days.

Yeah. Is there something that you want to share? So I always end with if there's a quote or a song lyric or something that you remind yourself of when you want to center your values or help, you know, the right next step. Is there anything that you've thought of that you want to bring to this?

Nothing is coming to my mind immediately. I mean, that's okay.

Yeah. I mean, I. What I hear you saying all along are certain principles of trust. Trusting people that they know what they need, having respect, especially for people who

are put down, people working in service, children, women, all those things seem like

they've risen to the top for you in terms of making the choices about how you build your life right now. And it's really beautiful to hear about how you've built community and found. And I. Oh, you know, one last thing. I was Going to ask is, with all of this weight and conflict around motherhood, do you identify primarily as a mother? Is that something that you really center

when you talk to people still, despite all the stigma and the judgment?

Yeah. Yeah. I do center myself as a mother because no matter what profession or what thing I may be doing in my professional life, I am and always will be a mother. And that doesn't change. Right. So I do center my identity around being a mother. And I. I also feel that we do need to own it because many a times we identify ourselves with our job. Okay, I'm this manager, and I'm this and I'm that. However, my identity is primarily around nurturing my child. And I may not be in that moment. Yeah, I may not be mothering, but I'm always nurturing. You know, if it is at the back of my mind, I don't forget it. I don't. I can't. Even if I want to forget it, I can't. Like, people tell you that, you know, go out and have your me time and, you know, forget being a mother and go out on a trip, but I can just can't. That identity of being a mother is so wired in me now that not even for like an hour, I'm able to shift into any other role. Yeah, Maybe temporarily, but behind, you know, every action or every decision I take or every step that I take, it is myself. Like, I. I see myself as a mother. So.

Yeah. And it's a reclaiming of that term,

too, from all the judgment that's put

on it and the.

The putting down. I love what you said about nurturing,

because I feel like that's what you've

been talking about the whole time, like, nurturing your. Not just your child, but yourself and your community and. Yeah, that's really beautiful.

Yeah. Yeah. And women around you, I feel even if they're not mothers, like, they're also community to me.

Effy. Yeah. That's how you practice that feminism and that affirmation is to be nurturing the women around you. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you for talking to me, Supriya. It's been really great to get to know you better. And I always like working with you and I. It's so cool to hear all the thoughts that are. Have gotten you to this point where you are to do the work that you do. It's really cool.

Thank you so much for having me and taking time off for this conversation and this idea.

Yeah, yeah, of course.

Thank you so much.

This has been another episode of untangling ourselves. If you'd like to connect with Supriya, you can find her at thismum, that's Mum Thismum Life on Instagram and I'll put that in the show notes as well as her email is wellbeingwithsupreamail.com she can work as a play therapist and also is building community locally and online. As always, it helps us a lot if you can subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast. Appreciate Leave a review Favorite an episode and share with your friends and family who might be interested in particular topic or in this style of telling stories about non coercive change. Thanks for listening.